The Power of Storytelling for Content Creation and Branding, with Rob Stennett

[00:00:00] Tim: There's a tidal wave that's headed to the shores of content creators everywhere.

[00:00:04] And that is the tidal wave comprised of generic content produced by an army of artificial intelligence robots, making it all that more difficult for human content creators to stand out and grow an audience. Over the coming years, this will be a growing challenge as more people and businesses leverage Chat-GPT, WriteSonic, and other tools that can be used to produce captions, titles, or even whole blog posts and video scripts based on prompts provided by human users. 

[00:00:34] Now, it's true that the internet and social media sites in general have long been awash in low to medium-quality generic content, similar to the kind produced by artificial intelligence. In the past, that content would be slightly better or worse copies of what other people had produced, or it would be created using templates adapted to a specific creator's brand, or be outsourced to other creators based on sites such as Fivver.

[00:00:58] What's different about the advent of Chat GPT and other similar tools is that these tools are making it easier than ever to produce that kind of content at scale, and do it at a relatively low cost in terms of the time and financial investment required. 

[00:01:12] That's why in this episode, I'm really glad to have the opportunity to talk about the power of storytelling with Rob Stennett. Rob is an award-winning video content creator based in Austin, Texas, and he is also the founder and creative lead for Storyize, which is a video content creation firm that helps brands tell their stories through video, podcasts, and social media. 

[00:01:31] As we'll discuss, storytelling is one of the key tools that content creators can use to level up their content so that it does stand out among that sea of sameness on social media and internet sites. Stories help us understand, they help us relate, and they help us to remember, and for all those reasons, storytelling is a great thing to incorporate in your content as well as in your brand. 

[00:01:52] All right, then let's get into it. 

[00:01:53] Rob, welcome to the show! I think it's very timely that we have an opportunity to talk about storytelling.

[00:02:02] I was just seeing that a couple of weeks ago we had the release of the Chat GPT-3 AI software, which I think is really gonna transform content creation, because it's gonna make it so much easier to produce that low to mid-level content at scale. 

[00:02:19] And I think in this kind of context, storytelling's gonna become even more important, because I think that that's one of the things that AI can't replicate is human stories, and history, and experience, and emotions. 

[00:02:32] Rob: Absolutely. 

[00:02:33] Tim: Yeah, I'm interested in getting into the discussion, and just wanna start by asking you what is your origin story as a content creator? 

[00:02:41] Rob: So in high school, I would make like movies with my friends. We made like a Halloween kind of knockoff. We made a Star Trek knockoff. And we'd sit down and it was like somebody has to write the script. We like knew we wanted to do it, but it's like, what are we gonna say? What are we gonna do? Someone has to write the script. 

[00:02:57] And I was like, Oh, that sounds fun. So for me, that's how I got into script writing. That's why story's so much a big deal to me is I'm like, okay, how's the story structured? How do we do script writing?

[00:03:08] And that has translated into everything from me writing feature film scripts that have been optioned, none have been produced. I've written some documentaries, I've written some books, and do a lot of like marketing, social media content, and that sort of stuff as well. 

[00:03:21] And so anything that story- based, I've kind of built my life around and it was kind of that moment in the field in high school when we all had a camera and was like, okay, we wanna do something creative, but we have to have a plan. And to me that's what a story is, is the plan. 

[00:03:36] Tim: That's cool. I saw that you went to UCLA film school, is that right?

[00:03:40] Rob: That's correct, yeah. I went to UCLA and studied film and screenwriting there specifically and got to meet so many amazing people, you know, David Kepp and Paul Haggas and you know, all these really incredible screenwriters that were alums and they're just regular, you know, people with passion about stories. So it was an awesome experience. 

[00:03:57] Tim: Yeah. Did you have, like, was that always your goal was to be in filmmaking? You know, that's a tough field to break into. So some people go into it and they have a plan B but others, it's just like, no, it's that no matter what. How did you approach it back then?

[00:04:12] Rob: I was an English major in college. So studied English, and then when I graduated I was like, I thought about teaching, I thought about being a professor, you know, but I was really like, I wanna be more on the creative side of it, and so I think that's what pushed me to really do screenwriting and really push myself into it.

[00:04:28] And it's, it's an impossible field to break into. Honestly, there are so many barriers. There are so many things. But, at the same time, what I've found in my life is like just setting my compass in that direction. Every person who I ever met, I had to introduce myself as a writer and a storyteller. 

[00:04:42] Tim: Right. 

[00:04:42] Rob: And just doing that like opens up so many doors, and opens up so many other projects that I would've never thought, I would have the ability to do. And so that's what I'd say to people who like, want to do screenwriting. It's not like becoming a doctor, or a dentist, or a lawyer, where there's a clear like 1, 2, 3 plan. 

[00:04:59] Tim: Right. 

[00:04:59] Rob: It is the wild, wild west. But there, like you said, there's such a need for content, that if you just kind of put yourself out there and work on sharpening your skills, it's amazing what doors open.

[00:05:10] Tim: Absolutely. And that's a, that's a good segue to the next question, which is how is it that stories help build an audience for social media brands and profiles? What, what's the role of storytelling? 

[00:05:22] Rob: I think it's just how we make sense of the world. You know, like one of my professors said, when you say thou shalt or thou shalt not, you speak to the head. When you say, once upon a time you speak to the heart. And so if you really wanna like get to people's emotions and not just lecture on them, you need to do this, you should do this. You know, like lectures turn people off, they don't wanna hear it. But if you tell some sort of story with emotion that makes us laugh, makes us cry, it really hooks us in in a meaningful way.

[00:05:52] Tim: Yeah, absolutely. It's like the difference between, you know, here's five tips to improve your video versus like, what I did last week to improve my video content. 

[00:06:02] Rob: Or do it the opposite. The biggest video editing mistake you can make. And then all of a sudden it's like, oh, okay, what's that? Or, you know, the worst day at my job I've ever had, like when there are stakes to it. 

[00:06:13] Tim: The biggest mistakes I made.

[00:06:15] Rob: Exactly. And. Oh, what is that? Like? That kind of taps into that fear, which fear motivates people almost more than joy. And so you tap into that fear and kind of morbid curiosity. You're like, oh, what mistake did you make? I wanna hear about that. 

[00:06:28] Tim: Yeah. 

[00:06:28] Rob: And so that like lean makes people lean in. 

[00:06:31] Tim: Yeah, for sure. There's a real, like, it's almost like a real science to hooking people with your titles. The opening lines, like the opening scene of any story, is always so important. 

[00:06:42] Rob: Yeah, it is. And just like, and again, basing in stories, like stories are about peaks and valleys, right? So if you're a content creator, think about how can I cage this into a peak or a valley?

[00:06:53] How can I make it, hey, this was the best moment of my, I mean, it doesn't have to be hyperbole like that, but like, something incredible that I never thought I was capable of or ...

[00:07:03] Tim: Right. 

[00:07:03] Rob: ... the, the darkest day on my, you know, drive home or just something that kind of leans into that peak and valley, just making your content about like is it gonna make people smile? Is it gonna make people cry? Is it gonna make them afraid? Like, that's what I think when it comes to storytelling and content creation is like, what emotion will people experience when they're consuming your content? Will they feel anxiety? Will they feel excitement? Will they feel fear? You know, thinking about that and what you're going to have people feel, will help you to make that story sharper.

[00:07:36] Tim: That's awesome. Yeah. And that's, that's kind of like I'm thinking about YouTube videos. Mm-hmm. And, and if you're, you know, creating a long format, one, and then you're switching to short form, and those are only like 60 seconds, 30 seconds. Like, how do you translate that kind of story arc into a short story? Because so many things are based on this short form content these days. 

[00:08:00] Rob: So I'll answer that question by saying there's this movie Alien. 1986. James Cameron, have you ever seen aliens before? 

[00:08:06] Tim: Yeah, I have. 

[00:08:07] Rob: Yeah. Okay. Anyone who's listening, if you haven't seen aliens, it is a rollercoaster thrill ride, but it's also a great lesson in kind of long-form and short-form storytelling. There's this moment in aliens when she's on this big like machine loader, and early on in the movie, she gets in the machine loader and she loads some boxes on the machine, and then all the other Marines, she's not a Marine, all the other Marines like cheer for her. And then right at the very end of the movie, the Alien is there. The mother alien, and she gets back in the machine loader, and she goes to fight it. And we know that she has a chance because they set that up all the way earlier in the story, right? So if you wanna tell good stories, it's about set up and payoff. And you can do that in a really long story, or you can do it in a really short form story.

[00:08:54] You know, like so many of what YouTube TikTok is about is about set up and payoff like you'll see, right? A husband who goes and takes a Halloween skeleton and puts it next to his wife in bed and he sets it up there, and you know what the payoff's gonna be, she's gonna see it and she's gonna scream, but you still kind of lean into it.

[00:09:12] My daughter like watches kids open blind bags on YouTube. It's the weirdest thing. She literally like watches other kids open toys, but the setup is there's a blind bag and that payoff is what's inside the blind bag. So whether you're doing that in really long-form story storytelling or short-form storytelling, it's the same idea of like a setup and then a payoff.

[00:09:35] Tim: Absolutely. Stepping back from that how about when you're talking about creating your brand. I mean creating an origin story, cause that that's something that's also talked about a lot in terms of what's important as a content creator. You, you're creating the content. 

[00:09:50] Rob: Yeah. 

[00:09:50] Tim: Which maybe is conveying information, but it's also about your persona. But I think one of the things content creators starting out struggle with is that you know, maybe they're just they see themselves as like, I'm, I'm an ordinary guy interested in technology, and I make videos about, you know, the new gadgets that I've got. So how do I create a brand story out of that? I, I don't have like a, a spectacular rise to fame to draw on or, or anything like that. So, so how would you recommend someone get started in crafting a story, as it were, telling their story? 

[00:10:24] Rob: I would challenge people to ask themselves this one simple question of like, what is the story that I'm uniquely qualified to tell? Like, what can I do different than anyone else? And that may be your origin story. Maybe you're an immigrant who moved in the country. It may just be a certain sense of like personality. Maybe it's like, Hey, I like gadgets, but I'm also really funny. Maybe it's your really good at networking. Like, hey, I like gadgets and I'm good at like, connecting other people, so I'm gonna bring other people on. Like, what's a skill that you have? Mm-hmm. And if you don't know what it is, find your friends. Talk to your parents. Like, just ask 'em. It's a vulnerable question, but like, what am I uniquely able to do? If you lean into that question, what it will do is make your content you, and it'll make us lean into you.

[00:11:09] For me, when I see someone, like, mimicking someone else, I'm like, oh, you're trying to be like this YouTuber. You're trying to be like this talker, and you're doing your own version. It feels kind of cheap, and it's like, oh, they, they have such great results, I'm just gonna do that. But when I watch someone else do it, I'd rather watch the original anyway. 

[00:11:27] Tim: Right. 

[00:11:27] Rob: When it's like, oh, this person has their own unique voice and it doesn't have to be overly like, the most amazing thing or whatever else, but it's like, oh, this is someone who's a unique human. And also for me, mm-hmm, passion is something that I lean into if I see like, oh, this is really a passion. Like I connect with that. Like I'm a huge basketball fan and so there's this podcast with the Denver Nuggets that I listen to, and it's just, these guys are passionate about it. 

[00:11:54] Tim: Right. 

[00:11:55] Rob: And they're, they're not the biggest analyst. They don't know all the stuff. They don't know all the stats, but that passion comes and goes through. So I think your personality, Plus, plus your passion leads to great content. 

[00:12:07] Tim: That's so important and it's hard to you know, sometimes, it's hard to identify, but I like the way you explained it there in terms of, of how to put it together. 

[00:12:15] Rob: Yeah. Thank you. 

[00:12:16] Rob: I've never said that before. Your personality plus your passion, equals great content. I'm like, I should write that down. 

[00:12:21] Tim: Like, definitely. 

[00:12:22] Rob: But, but I think it's true, right? Like, at least for me, like that's what resonates. 

[00:12:26] Tim: Is that how you approach it with, with organizations that you work with, through your video production company?

[00:12:32] Rob: I do kind of the same sort of idea if it's an organization, which is like, okay, like if you sell coffee, don't be like, okay, we're just gonna be like Starbucks. It's like, no, like what's, what's unique about your brand? What's unique about your story? What's unique about your voice? Why do I, you know, you don't even have to put down Starbucks. Some people do, like, people aren't interested in that versus like, this is something unique that we're qualified to do. Maybe it's like we're hyper, hyper-localized. Or maybe it's like, hey, we have a really great environment that, you know, is great to work in, or whatever that thing is, but like, know what makes you unique.

[00:13:07] That sort of unique personality and then that unique passion and help that come to life. And that's if you're a law firm, a coffee company, a nonprofit, whoever you are, that's a lot of the work that I do. A lot of people will say, oh, we wanna make a video. Or, oh, we want to, you know, work on our brand. And then I kind of go back to those questions. 

[00:13:26] Tim: Yeah. 

[00:13:26] Rob: And say, okay, if you haven't answered these well, the video's not gonna be as sharp, the content's not gonna be as sharp. 

[00:13:33] Tim: Yeah. Are there archetypes you draw on when you're, when you're thinking about the stories? Or is it just like kind of looking at each thing individually and saying, okay, what are you gonna try and say and then we'll craft it from that?

[00:13:45] Rob: I kind of used like big headline examples of, yeah, I guess archetype's a good word. Like certain personas and personalities that a business can have. You know, like are you more fun or are you serious? Are you more, you know of an artistic or are you professional and button up, you know, there's certain like this or that questions that I find that help people kind of lean into something 

[00:14:06] Tim: Yeah, and there's also like, okay, this is the hero. This, is gonna be the hero's journey. 

[00:14:10] Rob: Exactly, and I encourage a lot of people, like this is Donald Miller. I don't know if you've ever heard him, he's like a storytelling guru, but he talks about like, you are not the hero, you are the guide. And so, the customer is the hero of the story, right? So as much as possible, if you can make the customer story the hero, and then you have to ask again, it's a story question, which is what does your customer want? What is the key thing that they want? 

[00:14:33] Tim: Yeah. 

[00:14:34] Rob: And that's true whether they're, it's a, you're a business. If you're a podcaster, it's like, okay, someone's listening to this right now. What do they want? Like, why are they listening to this? Like, like we ask ourselves that question and then like, okay, how do we deliver the thing that they want that will then make them like, oh, that was worth my time.

[00:14:50] Tim: Yeah, absolutely. And it makes me think of how like, you know, it's those questions about like you know, we're, we're gonna show you how to transform. It's about transformation. The brand or the marketing story is about how the customer goes from A to B. So it's like, take your podcast from, you know, from zero to a thousand subscribers in, in 90 days or whatever, right? 

[00:15:15] Yeah. And you actually have a podcast as well, the meaning behind the movie. And I really I enjoyed checking it out. I like the format and the topics you're covering. A lot of the, you know, the favorite movies we like to debate about, like Lord of the Rings, Back to the Future, Die Hard, we're talking about whether it's really a Christmas movie. 

[00:15:32] Rob: That was our very first episode was we're like, okay, it's been such a raging debate over the last five years or so. So we're like, all right, we're gonna tackle it once and for all. Like is diehard a Christmas movie or not? And one of my co-hosts came up with like four things of like, what makes up a Christmas movie?

[00:15:48] Tim: That's awesome, we are gonna watch it this Christmas again. 

[00:15:51] Rob: For me it is. My co-host said, no. For me, I say, yes, I'd love to hear any of the listeners' feedback, but for me, that's why the podcast has been so fun. It's mostly been just a passion project. I love movies, like, and I love talking about it. And for me, it's just been a space to really go and debate some of, like, we try to do a current movie and then a classic movie, and so we kind of go back and forth mm-hmm. of like, okay, we, we just did Planes, Trains, and Automobiles. And then this week we're doing the Fable Men's, which is Steven Spielberg's, you know, new movie. We're kind of going back and forth. But I think like talking about what a movie means is, like a meaningful conversation, and so I love to have it. 

[00:16:28] Tim: Yeah. Do you see it as fitting into the rest of your brand strategy or is it more just a side passion project? 

[00:16:34] Rob: For me, it is part of my brand PR strategy cuz it positions me as an expert in storytelling. Or, at least maybe I'm not an expert, I'll let other people decide. But at the very least, someone who's passionate about it. Someone who thinks about it. 

[00:16:46] Tim: Yeah. 

[00:16:46] Rob: And someone who understands what makes it work and not work. And then also another thing that I'm getting into is like helping others launch podcasts. From that, I've built a pretty big listener base and I kind of get a consistent, like so many people are like, I wanna launch a podcast. In this conversation that we're having about content creation, people are like, how do you do that? And so I'm working on helping systems and ways to like build your own podcasts out to tell your story because I love podcasting.

[00:17:14] Right. 

[00:17:14] Tim: I think it's one of the best mediums that we have. And that's why I was excited to jump on this, is like we can have a longer conversation. It doesn't have to be 30 seconds long. We can get deeper into subjects. 

[00:17:23] Absolutely. Yeah. That's one of the things I love about it, is you, you can dive a lot more deeply into a topic and you know, explore it in some detail and, you know, get different perspectives on it from, from other people 

[00:17:35] Rob: And, I love all the questions that you ask. I love kind of the way that you built this all the way out, because I'm like, okay, we're really like circling in on the topic and this is what I coach people to do is, like, find a topic and then go deeper and deeper. And you doing these questions and asking in different ways of like what the strategy is and how to use it, it just helps us go deeper into a topic. And so, again, if you're a content creator, I think podcasting is something you should seriously look into. 

[00:18:00] Tim: Yeah. And it's kind of, it seems right now, it's a little less competitive than some of the other content formats. Like if you look at how many YouTube channels are out there, how many people are on TikTok or Instagram, the number of people. But comparatively, the number of podcasters, it's smaller. At least right now. 

[00:18:17] Rob: I think it feels more daunting and it feels more time-consuming. 

[00:18:20] Tim: Yeah. 

[00:18:21] Rob: But, at the same time, I think it's like, for me, what I love about it is it's a format that explores conversation versus like quick hitting debate or anger. You know, like Facebook is just like an anger-creating machine, right? And even YouTube in a way, people get on and rant, but podcast is much more, okay, like I have a voice, you have a voice. We can go back and forth. And so I think for people , it's a better medium to do. 

[00:18:45] And also it feels daunting, like, you've probably found this. Once you get in a flow, it's like, okay, it's manageable and you can schedule guests and you can have great conversations and, and it gives you, you know, so much content that you can get out there. 

[00:18:57] Tim: Yeah, and having the right tools is, is so important too. You know, I don't think I would've would be able to do this without being able to invest in some of the tools that support it. So I use BuzzSprout for distribution, and I'm using Descript for the transcripts and, of course, we're recording in Riverside right now. So it can kind of overcome some of those hurdles with technology. But if you, if you can't invest in the technology, then you, then you end up paying in the time right? To use some of the other tools that are not as efficient. 

[00:19:27] Rob: And I would encourage people, like, if you're serious about it, like use those tools because it does make it so much more doable. It's podcasting can be really time-consuming without some of; it's amazing the tools that we have now and the fact that like, I mean, people in Ukraine are like listening to my podcast about the movies, and I'm like, so kind of moved by it. I'm like, I'm connecting with people all around the world, what a time to be alive that we can just, I can record something in my house in Austin and people in Ukraine, people in Saudi Arabia, people in Australia are like listening to it. I'm like, what a medium that we have. 

[00:19:58] Tim: Yeah, well just imagine like if you wanted to do something like this, even 20, you know, 30 years ago. You would need you to know some external company with all the infrastructure, and they would be the gatekeeper about whether you get to make a show or not. And now it's so much more open than it is, kind of amazing and I agree. It's a really exciting time. 

[00:20:18] Rob: Yeah, it really is. It's amazing how far we've come and it's exciting to see what the future has in store. I do think you're right about ai, which is like, it's coming. It's here. And that's why finding your voice and finding who you are uniquely and not sounding like everyone else is how you also don't sound like ai. 

[00:20:35] So, yeah, it'll definitely be the differentiator even more cuz now you know, you can ask it to say like you know, give me five tips on how to start a podcast. It'll spit them out within seconds. Now there's no experience behind it. There's no kind of mentorship or any you know, insight about what it's like to go through that journey, really. But, it's there. And that, that's what'll be what differentiates content creators now is the ability to, to just share what the experience and the story is as opposed to, you know, here's the, here are the tips.

[00:21:11] Tim: It's like you say, it's, it's like the lecture format. And you probably had those kind of lecturers in college, right? Where they're the content machines. They're just giving you the information, but the, the faculty that you know, students tend to gravitate to more and enjoy their classes more, are always the ones they were, they were either funny storytellers or they'd relate it to their personal experience or, yeah, it's like something like that.

[00:21:36] Rob: It's like, you can say, hey, here are five reasons James Joyce is great. Or I had one of my professors tell me a story of like, it was 3:00 AM, and I was in a bar in Dublin. I'd had three Jamesons, and I was debating James Joyce. 

[00:21:47] Tim: Yeah. 

[00:21:47] Rob: And I was like, that's the dude I'm listening to. 

[00:21:49] Tim: That's right. That's great. Well how, how about did, did you wanna say any other things about your business, your video production business, or other services, your company provided?

[00:22:02] Rob: Just, yeah, so my business is called Storyize. Think like, visualize. So S T O R Y I Z E. And, essentially, what I tell people is like, help people visualize your story. So we make what I call as like an anthem video, which is like if you had one video that would explain your business or your nonprofit, like your heartbeat, what you do, we make that video and then from that video, we make a bunch of social media content and that sort of stuff. 

[00:22:28] And then if you're not ready, even with like, I don't know what that one video is, then we also help with brand architecture, storytelling. Architecture, to where really it's like, I believe, like you should have that video. You should have content ready to go, and then everyone in your company should be able to tell that story with the three Cs, which are clear, concise, and compelling.

[00:22:47] And so that's what I tell business owners is like, can everyone in your company tell your story in a way that's clear, concise, and compelling, and feel like, I don't know. It's like, all right, well let's work on that and dial that in. 

[00:22:57] Tim: Yeah, absolutely. If you think about going to a company website, if you see one that has a video like that, as you say, an anthem video, and it's clear, it's like, okay, I know who the, who these guys are and why I want to do business with them, versus just like, you know, as you said, we sell coffee. It's like, okay. 

[00:23:14] Rob: Well, and I'm a writer by trade at, like I said, as an English major, and like the painful truth of my life is that people don't read. And so it's like, some people will, you can have great copy. Yeah, you can have great headlines, but a powerful video is just gonna hook people in. And if you can make that two-minute video that like, gives your dna, then it's like, okay, tell me more. Then they may read, then they may wanna find out more. 

[00:23:33] Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. All right. Well, thank you very much, Rob. I really appreciate you taking the time to spend a bit of time with me today and, and talk about storytelling. 

[00:23:42] Yeah, thank you Tim. This is so great to be on this. 

[00:23:44] Tim: When I think about experienced content creators with large audiences, the use and the quality of storytelling in their content and in their branding are a couple of things that really stand out, and I hope this episode has given you a few ways to think about how you incorporate more of that. 

[00:23:59] For me, one of the easiest ways that I've been doing this is by incorporating more of my own experiences as a content creator within my videos and my podcast episodes. So whereas in the past I might have produced more generic content, like "Five Tips to Grow on Twitter." Increasingly, I'm trying to add in more personal experience by reworking that content as something like "The Surprising Results of my 100-Day Tweet Streak Challenge," or something like that.

[00:24:24] This builds on Gary Vaynerchuck's concept of "Document, Don't Create," which means documenting what you're doing as a content creator versus creating content separately. One of the great things about this approach is that it actually makes it easier to create content because you're just documenting what you're doing rather than researching or inventing other scenarios.

[00:24:42] What makes us even better is that this kind of approach fits very well into the storytelling archetypes that Rob and I referenced in this episode. So examples would be the situation, action, result; set up and payoff; or a story of transformation from mindset A to mindset B; and so on. 

[00:25:00] The other thing to think about is your overall brand story. What makes your story specific to you? Is it your expertise in the topic? Is it your passion for the topic, or is there something else distinctive about the way that you approach it? There's a whole range of possibilities there, but you just have to be clear about that story. so that you can be clear within the stories you tell within your content and your brand messaging.

[00:25:21] I hope you found this helpful. If you did, you can find more of my content here and consider subscribing. You can also find Rob's podcast by searching the meaning of the movie on Apple, Spotify, or PodBean. Until next time, we'll see you in the next episode.